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	<title>Comments for Charterblog</title>
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	<description>Analysis of Victoria&#039;s Charter of Human Rights</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 06:43:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by Jim South</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1223</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim South]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Sep 2011 06:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I contended above that In cases where a statute limits a right, s 7(2) has a role in the s 32(1) interpretative process (Gummow [168]; Hayne [280]; Heydon [427]–[428]; Bell [684]).

However, I&#039;ve since noticed that a different majority indicated it may be incompatible with Ch III of the Constitution for the proportionality test to be part of the interpretative process (French [36]; Heydon [439]; Crennan and Kiefel [574].

Thus, there is considerable uncertainty as to the validity and operation of s 7(2).

One possibility (apart from amending the Charter) is that the High Court could eventually rule that s 7(2) is invalid to the extent that it&#039;s intended to be applied as part of the interpretative process.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I contended above that In cases where a statute limits a right, s 7(2) has a role in the s 32(1) interpretative process (Gummow [168]; Hayne [280]; Heydon [427]–[428]; Bell [684]).</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;ve since noticed that a different majority indicated it may be incompatible with Ch III of the Constitution for the proportionality test to be part of the interpretative process (French [36]; Heydon [439]; Crennan and Kiefel [574].</p>
<p>Thus, there is considerable uncertainty as to the validity and operation of s 7(2).</p>
<p>One possibility (apart from amending the Charter) is that the High Court could eventually rule that s 7(2) is invalid to the extent that it&#8217;s intended to be applied as part of the interpretative process.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by armagny</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1209</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armagny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Jeremy!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Jeremy!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by Jim South</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1206</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim South]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1206</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I should clarify what I mean by &quot;outcomes&quot;. I&#039;m not suggesting that the majority view of the High Court on whether s 7(2) has a role in the interpretative process establishes a binding precedent. Rather, I&#039;m suggesting that if the Victorian Court of Appeal does not take the logical step of reversing its previous ruling on that question, the High Court will do so in due course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should clarify what I mean by &#8220;outcomes&#8221;. I&#8217;m not suggesting that the majority view of the High Court on whether s 7(2) has a role in the interpretative process establishes a binding precedent. Rather, I&#8217;m suggesting that if the Victorian Court of Appeal does not take the logical step of reversing its previous ruling on that question, the High Court will do so in due course.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by Jim South</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1201</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim South]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2011 07:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It seems to me that the key outcomes are as follows:

1.  Courts applying s 32(1) are limited to using a “process of construction as understood and ordinarily applied by courts, a process which is to be taken as accepted by the other arms of government in a system of representative democracy”. The Ghaidan “remedial” approach to interpretation was rejected. The relevant majority’s interpretation of s 32(1) was based primarily on the wording used in the section, without it being necessary to decide whether the Ghaidan approach is constitutionally permissible in Australia.

2.  The s 36 declaration power is valid, but Ch III of the Constitution prevents such a power from being conferred on or exercised by any court exercising federal jurisdiction. This has major implications for the ongoing debate about whether Australia should introduce a national bill of rights. It is now beyond doubt that the “dialogue” model adopted in Victoria and the ACT is not a viable option at the national level.

3.  In cases where a statute limits a right, s 7(2) has a role in the s 32(1) interpretative process (Gummow [168]; Hayne [280]; Heydon [427]–[428]; Bell [684]). It remains to be seen whether the involvement of the s 7(2) proportionality test in the interpretative process has any ramifications for the way that test is conducted, having regard to Ch III implications relating to the separation of powers.

The Charter is not dead; it is pining for the fjords, which of course are somewhere in Europe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that the key outcomes are as follows:</p>
<p>1.  Courts applying s 32(1) are limited to using a “process of construction as understood and ordinarily applied by courts, a process which is to be taken as accepted by the other arms of government in a system of representative democracy”. The Ghaidan “remedial” approach to interpretation was rejected. The relevant majority’s interpretation of s 32(1) was based primarily on the wording used in the section, without it being necessary to decide whether the Ghaidan approach is constitutionally permissible in Australia.</p>
<p>2.  The s 36 declaration power is valid, but Ch III of the Constitution prevents such a power from being conferred on or exercised by any court exercising federal jurisdiction. This has major implications for the ongoing debate about whether Australia should introduce a national bill of rights. It is now beyond doubt that the “dialogue” model adopted in Victoria and the ACT is not a viable option at the national level.</p>
<p>3.  In cases where a statute limits a right, s 7(2) has a role in the s 32(1) interpretative process (Gummow [168]; Hayne [280]; Heydon [427]–[428]; Bell [684]). It remains to be seen whether the involvement of the s 7(2) proportionality test in the interpretative process has any ramifications for the way that test is conducted, having regard to Ch III implications relating to the separation of powers.</p>
<p>The Charter is not dead; it is pining for the fjords, which of course are somewhere in Europe.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by Jeremy Gans</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1200</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy Gans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 23:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1200</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a consultant to the Charter review, so not for a while. I&#039;ve been told that Hetdon&#039;s judgment reads like charterblog, so maybe that&#039;ll do it for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a consultant to the Charter review, so not for a while. I&#8217;ve been told that Hetdon&#8217;s judgment reads like charterblog, so maybe that&#8217;ll do it for you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by Jeremy Gans</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy Gans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 22:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, in one sense 6-1 wasn&#039;t close. It seems clear that Dickson was written by Hayne and the other six didn&#039;t notice what they were signing onto. 
But the six didn&#039;t just admit they got Dickson wrong, so it is still looming as a threat to state criminal law. 

There&#039;s now a majority who say that s109 doesn&#039;t apply to inconsistencies from background regimes like s80 and sentencing laws. I assume that also applies to the general criminal law (elements, general defences and the like) but no-one actually said that. 

There&#039;s also now some judges who say that Dickson doesn&#039;t cover procedural rules; federal rules that are nastier than state ones; and different maximum penalties, but not quite a majority in each case. On my reading, Vic&#039;s possession law (where there is a state reverse onus but no federal one) is still in doubt. Also, on all approaches, the threat to NSW&#039;s supply law remains. However, it is clearly possible that there&#039;ll be further backtracks or shifts that will save those. 

That leaves covers the field. I counted three judges (Heydon, Crennan, Kiefel) who think savings clauses are effective in indirect inconsistency cases. But three more require other indications of intent, which will leave room for doubt.

The danger will obviously diminish significantly once Hayne goes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, in one sense 6-1 wasn&#8217;t close. It seems clear that Dickson was written by Hayne and the other six didn&#8217;t notice what they were signing onto.<br />
But the six didn&#8217;t just admit they got Dickson wrong, so it is still looming as a threat to state criminal law. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s now a majority who say that s109 doesn&#8217;t apply to inconsistencies from background regimes like s80 and sentencing laws. I assume that also applies to the general criminal law (elements, general defences and the like) but no-one actually said that. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also now some judges who say that Dickson doesn&#8217;t cover procedural rules; federal rules that are nastier than state ones; and different maximum penalties, but not quite a majority in each case. On my reading, Vic&#8217;s possession law (where there is a state reverse onus but no federal one) is still in doubt. Also, on all approaches, the threat to NSW&#8217;s supply law remains. However, it is clearly possible that there&#8217;ll be further backtracks or shifts that will save those. </p>
<p>That leaves covers the field. I counted three judges (Heydon, Crennan, Kiefel) who think savings clauses are effective in indirect inconsistency cases. But three more require other indications of intent, which will leave room for doubt.</p>
<p>The danger will obviously diminish significantly once Hayne goes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by Luke</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1198</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 14:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s some dead charter there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s some dead charter there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by monsterholiday</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[monsterholiday]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 08:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[come back, we miss you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>come back, we miss you!</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New Charter by armagny</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/the-new-charter/#comment-1196</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[armagny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2011 08:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=1283#comment-1196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So Mr Gans. We all watched in fear of your prediction from the last constitutional law conference coming true, vis a vis 109. It came a little close, perhaps your floodgates warnings were heeded? Anyway, expecting an update now the High Court has done its thing....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Mr Gans. We all watched in fear of your prediction from the last constitutional law conference coming true, vis a vis 109. It came a little close, perhaps your floodgates warnings were heeded? Anyway, expecting an update now the High Court has done its thing&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The messy effect of Charter s. 39(1) by Your kids&#8217; right not to be disciplined &#171; 5 Star Laundry</title>
		<link>http://charterblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/the-messy-effect-of-charter-s-391/#comment-1176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Your kids&#8217; right not to be disciplined &#171; 5 Star Laundry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 06:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://charterblog.wordpress.com/?p=83#comment-1176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] and public authorities. There&#8217;s no standalone cause of action (as the legislation and Jeremy Gans make clear). You can&#8217;t sue someone for smacking their kid. So the submission is irrelevant and [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and public authorities. There&#8217;s no standalone cause of action (as the legislation and Jeremy Gans make clear). You can&#8217;t sue someone for smacking their kid. So the submission is irrelevant and [...]</p>
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